Tuesday, April 24, 2012

How To Drive A Narcissist Nuts - Post Removed

This post has been removed due to request of author. Original post comments still available (see below).

53 comments:

  1. All jokes aside, I would just like to say that I don't entirely agree with that end comment - while narcissism may in fact have a genetic-element to it, there are many ACoNs out there who are proof that, to have narcissism in their genetics, does not necessarily define who they are. Just because either one or both of your parents are narcs, does not mean that you will be too.

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    1. Yeah, I don't believe narcissists are born evil. It's impossible that a baby could be born evil or that a baby could be evil. It just doesn't make sense that a baby would pop out of someone's vagina evil. You can't be out of your mind if you didn't have a mind to start with. There can't be evil without some good first. A baby doesn't know what evil is. I believe you get what you put in. Someone put the evil there and now they're just walking expressions of evil. Wrecked. The Devil has them, like their eyes rolled up and down swoops the Devil into them like a glove, replacing everything, using their bodies, for infinity, for good. It's like the freaking Exorcist up in here!

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    2. I'm kind of up in the air about whether there are actually people out there who were born evil...It's that old nature vs. nurture argument (personally, I think nearly all cases can be attributed to a mixture of the two). But anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter. Evil is evil no matter how you slice it.

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    3. Lisa, My cousin and I were discussing getting an exorcist for my NGC younger brother. He was the sweetest baby and child who great up to be this really cool, laid back, wouldn't hurt a fly hippie. Then, BAM! He got all evil and mean as shit with a massive ego. Maybe too much pot and booze got in him or maybe the demon jumped from NF into NGC!

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    4. My mother's mother raised me and she was as sweet as they come. I am pretty sure my Nmother was spoiled rotten. No one EVER told her no and it became an entitlement. In her day she was pretty good looking and she had guys falling all over themselves for her and she played it to the hilt.
      Be that as it may there is a meanness in her that I don't think could come from outside her. She was born with something that wasn't human.
      I always joke about her dimming the lights in the room when she walks in. I swear there is some reality to that. She just doesn't give off the aura that regular people give. There is something organically not right with that woman.

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    5. Q, my NF seems to have a kind of inborn darkness in him which is really odd because his identical twin brother was just the opposite. Their mother committed suicide when they were four but their step-mother and older siblings, some of whom were older by 20 or more years, worshiped the ground they walked on. Until they joined the army for WWII at age 20 the twins were never separated, living at home and working in the same factory from age 10 onward. NF never saw combat while my gentle uncle was wounded in Italy. They married sisters and my uncle's wife quietly tolerated no BS while NM became NF's enabler.

      Nature vs nurture just doesn't cut it in this case!

      Today, in his nineties, my NF slouches in his chair, his heavy lids kind of hood his eyes and his expression is stern and disapproving no matter what is being discussed. Partly because his hearing is poor and partly because he doesn't give a shit, he will interrupt the conversation and talk about something only important to him. He's like a self-centered four year old, tantrums and all. Mostly he's just a really creepy, dark presence glowering in his chair.

      As a kid, I feared and worshiped this man all at the same time, now I feel nothing.

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    6. Mulderfan. You said...As a kid, I feared and worshiped this man all at the same time, now I feel nothing.
      One would think fear and worship were mutually exclusive. At least referencing a mortal. But I get it. I did the same thing.
      When and if I can work past my hate for my mother I will feel nothing for her. I am already there. But I have a lot of rage about what she did to my family. As an adult I can see how things could have been far different for us had she done just a little bit for me and my sister. Just a T-Tiny bit. She was such a hand full she took up the time of all the other adults who might have done more.
      Now she is like your father. Bitter and angry and mutters like an idiot about transgressions done to her that exist in her head only.

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    7. I hear a lot of pain, blame, judgment, lack of compassion, coldness, that is, Narc traits....from the Narc's victims. Wake up and grow up, people. Everything that is not "normal, majority style" is ill. Narcs and all victims of personality disorders were victims too. How far back are you gonna go? We are links in a chain of dysfunction. Just do better with your life and loved ones, and hang on to any piece of good memory that you may have from your abuser. About evil, define evil. Even Charles Manson had to have been sick. Our jails are full of murderers that are officially qualified as "mentally ill." Unless you are the kind that think mental illness is "evil."

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    8. You babble a lot and much of what you say doesn't make sense. From what I can tell, you haven't read enough of my blog to get an accurate sense of the topics I've written about, especially considering that you're now commenting on a post that is no longer available and which you probably didn't read when it was.

      I find the argument that "we're all just links in a chain of dysfunction" to be incredibly dull. Do yourself a favor and try not to be so ignorant. I have defined "evil" in the content of my blog many times over - if you don't agree with it, then by all means, explain yourself, but don't demand that the rest of us define it for you so that you can continue to disagree with what we have to say.

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  2. You're right, Jonsi. It's a funny article, and I've actually used one or two of those techniques or something similar, and they work, more specifically saying back something completely irrelevant or asking them to repeat themselves after a long, drawn out story. They don't like to think they weren't heard the first time. My sister and I also delve into topics the narcs find beneath them or repulsive. Believe it or not, another shocker is a simple, "No." It's amazing to watch the narcs blink as if they've never heard the word before. Thanks for the laugh!

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  3. Thanks for a good laugh, Jonsi!

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  4. My BIL spent a while talking about the allowable amount of rat and roach detritus the federal government allows in peanut butter.
    Man I thought my mother was going to come unglued. Not in his presence, but I heard about that for years after. HAHAHAHAHAH
    What a classic.

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  5. My Nsis came out of the womb with a profound sense of entitlement. Each child really does come into this world with the fundamentals of their own little personality in place-ask anyone who's had more than one. What happens after that is interesting.
    Despite enrolling Nsis in a prestigious Boarding School secondary to the recommendation of a psychiatrist to whom my father brought both Nsis and Psychobitch for assistance in the early '60's, Nsis's nastiness and entitlement continued to grow exponentially as she did. The shrink nailed it IMO when he told Dad due to the continuing conflict between the two 8 yr. olds (that'd be Nsis and Psychobitch ) they "needed to be separated because they are too much alike." Dad brought Nsis home anytime she wanted for weekends, vacations of course and attending school with the daughters of other affluent and/or well-known celebrities, politicians etc. did not appear to abate the conflicts or the sense of entitlement. She proclaimed on a regular basis, "TW's good enough for my hand-me-downs... If she REALLY needs clothes." She was absolutely serious.
    One of the most memorable occasions took place when Nsis was about 11 and home for a weekend. She announced at the Dining Room table one evening during dinner that my parents should vacate the Master Suite and give it to her. Once again, she was absolutely serious. It was the first-and only-time I saw Psychobitch absolutely speechless. The expression on her face was one of complete shock and confusion. It may have lasted 30 seconds but it was priceless! Takes a whole lot to knock an Nparent back on their heels and I gotta hand it to Nsis, she was successful!
    TW

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    1. psychobitch? you are a hurt and sick individual who will probably die alone and in pain. This is lacking so much compassion for the ill, who were victims themselves, that is almost like a Republican show.

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  6. I still don't believe anybody is born evil. A baby cannot be evil.

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    1. Again, define evil. Evil is what the unclean 12th century thinkers used to call those individuals that today we call "mentally ill." Anybody who acts deliberately heinously is SICK, not evil. Evil is a religious concept. Evil doesn't exist., though I hear some people here that are making me doubt. We are all victims. Calling your sick mother "psychobitch" is the epitome of disgusting.

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  7. I can relate to this as a survivor of a 12 year relationship with my ex who suffers from Narcissistic Personality disorder. I still have trouble with saying that he the predator with this mental illness "suffers." I don't ever see him suffering, the one who suffer are his close family members. By the grace of God I am here to talk about it and I will do whatever it takes to educate and warn people about this very powerful evil demon that has taken over the bodies of most NPD's. look up the JEZEBEL SPIRIT, and do your research, you will see that it is one of the most powerful demons seeking to destroy the vulnerable, compassionate people it seeks out as their prey. And may I add, will never, I mean never let you get away! I unfortunately am a bit stuck, stuck because I did breed. We had a child together, and I have to fight with my ex very frequently because he has been emotionally abusing our child. I have my son in therapy and probably always will. I had to go to the women's shelter of our town for help because no one will believe you about the horrible things that go on behind closed doors. My ex has manipulated the whole town into believing its me that is crazy and that I am the one emotionally screwing up our child. He even has the majority of the police dept on his side, because he is wealthy and can provide them with VIP tickets and free drinks to his bars and businesses. He even had my mother, father, sisters and their families against me. And for someone to be able to get your close family thinking twice about your claims, this has to be one pretty powerful EVIL DEMON! Please, if you are involved with someone abusive, seek God and ask for His help in removing you from this monster before its too late! And educate yourself on the power of and tactics that the Jezebel spirit uses to reel you back in. Only God can intervene and help you to heal and recover from such tragedy. I am still educating myself on how to deal with my ex and not win, but just survive and to be able to seee his manipulative tactics that he uses to control me by using our child. To this day he is still trying to reel me back in to hell. But my Saviour will not allow that! Hope this helps....God Bless.

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    1. You are very on point when you speak of the Jezebel Spirit. I'm involved with a man that has both the narcissitic and borderline personality issues. His mother is jezebel reborned. Only God can save a person from this hell. Praying for you and your child and knowing God is able.

      Ghee

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    2. That technique is a called Gaslighting,it has been done to me for 17 years.That is basically a whole generation of lies about who I am.

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    3. My suggestion to you is that you need to tell a Social Worker who has some knowledge about the disorder. Your Son needs to have NO contact with the demon he calls "Dad". I am 33 years old have 3 boys and it just hit me not even a year ago that my Mother was a horriable person and is uncapble of love!!! She has manipulated my life to were I am depending on her for shelter for my family. She has caused me to lose jobs, family members and made it difficult to keep friends (throught my whole life). I have realized she is one of Satan's vile projects that he gave to this world. I have been diagnosed with Anxiety and have Major Depression due to the abuse she has done to me. She would make Joan Crawford proud. I just don't want ANYOTHER child to suffer from these DEEPLY DAMAGED people! I hope everyone who has been a victum of these MONSTERS find peace and happiness and BREAK THE CYCLE!

      MUCH LOVE

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  8. Oh and thank you so much for that great article! I don't think I have had such laughs in a long time. Everything you mentioned about how they are and how they will react .... hit the nail right on the head. Thanks again.

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    1. Hi Anon, I just have to say, I didn't write this article, just re-posted it because I thought it was amusing. I'm sorry to hear about your ex - I almost found myself in a similar situation but I got out "in time." I wish you the best of luck in your situation, it sounds like you'll need it! (That, and steel-hard resolve).

      For the record, I didn't find an answer in God, I'm agnostic. But I don't think it matters where you find your answers, as long as you find them.

      Best,

      Jonsi

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    2. Hi Jonsi, thanks for your response. I guess I got so excited with the truths of this article that I didn't even bother to see who it was written by. Either way, I am glad you posted it because it really did bring some good laughs. And for you to have posted this, that would mean you totally understand how serious and dangerous these ppl with this disorder/spirit can be. I am soooo glad to hear you got out "in time." I wish I had got out sooner too. But I have realized everything happens for a reason, although I do not know what that reason is quite yet.lol All I know is that Narcissists look for the too nice, too compassionate, too forgiving, and the too weak to stand up for yourself. That way they can reel you in with their charming tactics, then once they feel you are enamored with them, they stop the charm and you begin to see the real monster inside...by then, it's usually too late to break free completely! There are emotional feelings attached, sometimes children, and the mere fact that they make you get rid of everything in your name, so that you are now dependent on them, making it easier for them to pull you back in, over and over. And once you do manage to break free, you are still very weak from all the emotional or physical abuse, and now you have to endure many months of emotional healing/therapy. I will never stop trying to warn others about these wolves in sheep's clothing! I am sorry to hear you didn't find an answer in God, all I can say is don't give up seeking Him, because once you find Him and totally give yourself to Him, you will experience the most powerful feeling of real peace. And not to mention the fact that He loves you no matter how bad or how stupid our decisions were in the past. He is so forgiving and now I am constantly telling people about all the miracles and wonderful things He has done in my life. I am not trying to change your opinion by any means, only that I too was there at one time, but the bible said to seek with all your heart, soul and mind. So I kept the faith and continued seeking, and He opened doors and put people in my path that ultimately got me out of the horrible, deep, dark, despair that I was in. I hope this helps.... :)

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    3. Hi Anon - I'm glad you found what you needed to find.

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  9. Hi, RunAbstract here... I just found this re-published Hub (from HubPages.com) today, and was surprised! I didn't realize my little ditty was anywhere other than HubPages, or in the hard copy form available at lulu.com. I'm kind of flattered that it is making the rounds.
    But what also surprised me was the comment section here. WOW! These comments are VERY different from what I received with the original publishing 2 or 3 years ago.
    I was at a "it's either laugh or go mad" point and tried to put as much humor in the piece as I could pry from my love/almost hate relationship with my own personal nar....
    Here the comments seemed to run with the core of the first comment posted, with the humor (for the most part) left on the sidelines. So the darker side of the situation we deal with when we are involved with this type of personality was the strong factor with your readers.
    I found it very interesting comparing these comments to the comments I personally received.
    I am a bit amazed you found my little "rant" worthy of republishing on your blog!
    Thank you... ?

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  10. Hi Run - A couple things: One, I'm super surprised and super happy to see you here - and glad to know you aren't upset that I posted this here. I'm usually really good about asking for permission from authors before I do re-posts and citing everything back to the original source, but in this case I didn't ask for permission first. So I'm both relieved to know you don't mind, and happy that you feel good about the comments it received here.

    I think you might also be happy (and pleasantly surprised?) to know that this is my post that gets hit the most from people searching google, it ends up being the landing page for most everyone that comes here - which I know because I track my stats. I think there were a couple of facebook groups that had linked to this post, so you're making the rounds there as well. Anyway, I really should be thanking you, since this post has attracted so much traffic and as you pointed out, a decent selection of comments.

    I recently went back to your original post and read through the comments there and I was surprised to see the flavor of comments there. I would say it seemed to get a warm welcome here as well as on your hub (give or take a few comments - I believe there was one person in particular who did not appreciate your humor so much?) Anyway, I recall when I first found your "rant" and, given the darkness of the situation I found myself in, it provided some welcome light and humor to my state of mind.

    So again, thank you.

    Hugs,

    Jonsi

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  11. Hello, i am the scapegoat in my family...my nm has gotten worse since.my dad passed away and she then latched on to my younger sibling the gc....since my dad is not around to give her nsupply, she has been heavily leaning on gc sibling, she acts.like a little girl when she talks to hom feigning helplessness and manipulating to get him more entrenched as her flying monkey. He can do no wrong in her eyes and i beleive this gives him a benefit of feeling adored and valued. Since my dad died the two of them (my nm and gc sibling) have become enmeshed ,my mother heavily milking her feigned helplessness to manipulate him and him acting as her spokesperson and flying monkey. I desperately need specific advice on how to deal with them ESPECIALLY how to deal with the tactics of my flying monkey sibling. She has him so under her control that he acts like some type of patrolman, who tries to monitor and interfere with commumication between my nm and myself. Its become almost imposible to have a basic conversation with nm, because if he is present,he will.listen in and then somtimes he takes the phone away from her orecenting me from talking to her...or other times she will twist my words or a situation around, and maliciously tell gc sibling, who then attacks me for "letting poor mom get upset" help. I need specific advice on how to respond in these situations where my sibling interferes in my own private comunication with my nm...thank you

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    1. Hi Anon,

      I think the best advice I can give you is to figure out where your own boundaries are and then stick to them as well as you can - the better you stick to them, the saner you'll feel, though it likely won't do much to control their behaviors, it'll simply give you the space you need to feel emotionally safe. In my experience, dealing with narcs and their flying monkeys was totally and completely draining and time-consuming and in the end, there is nothing you can do to change their behaviors. No amount of crying, pleading, or explaining will get them to stop whatever it is they are doing that is hurting you.

      I'm not sure that I can give you specific examples without knowing the specific situations at hand, nor do I think that my specific solutions would necessarily be the be-all, end-all to your relationship struggles with your mother and sibling. But if I were you, I might start by defining my own boundaries: what is acceptable to me and what is not, what is a deal-breaker and what is not, and what are the consequences when my boundaries are broken.

      Anon, I wish you the very best of luck and sincerely hope that you have more of it than most of the rest of us here. I wouldn't wish a narcissist on even the worst narcissists I've known.

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    2. Anon, since I deal with a Narcissistic Golden Child, who is my younger brother, and two Narcissistic elderly parents, you might want to pop over to my blog and have a read.

      Took me a while and a few false starts but I'm now as free as a bird and happier than I've ever been!

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  12. My husband never knew his real father he left when he was two. His mom remarried shortly after. She had his yuk sister whom is a profound narcissist. My hubs step dad turned into a horrid beast whom was extremely abusive and controlling. My mom in law just dealt with it and took all the shhhh from that man out of fear I would believe.

    The damage due to the abuse of the STEP DAD...And his mother being extremely enabling and codling to him out of guilt created my husband to be the Narcissist he is today.

    It is so damaging and sad these people cannot see past the noses on their faces...and get through the issues and just BE BETTER PEOPLE TO BE AROUND.

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    1. "It is so damaging and sad these people cannot see past the noses on their faces...and get through the issues and just BE BETTER PEOPLE TO BE AROUND."

      Yesyesyesyesyesyesyes! Whenever I get to thinking about narcissists, I tend to always circle back around to that same conclusion: how fucking lame and sad that these people can't (or won't) do even a little bit of work in order to have better relationships with the most important people in their lives. I've never seen any of them - not a one! - put actual, genuine effort into making the kinds of changes necessary to even begin to heal the deep wounds that THEY have inflicted.

      Thanks for your voice anon.

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  13. How do I help get my love away from his aging narcisstic mother whose demands are literally impeding his ability to focus on school,career, relationship and has now taken a physical toll on his health? He was hospitalized for a week for serious health issue that his twin bro has had for two years ? After he got of hospital, literally left theER and took his final and got a 100, was inducted to high honor society 3 days later and went back to work. At his party, his mom talked about the twin bro as if he was the only suck child. Her husband died 10 years ago. My bf and I left New Orleans two years ago to get educated. He is the nicest son. Does anything for her. But her demands are out of control. Literally demandibg things like re-roofing the shed. Calling up aunts & uncles & siblings to bitch about him not snapping cutting down trees in her backyard. I'm afraid he will collapse uncoscious one day. He does not have insurance. When he was admitted she sat there on the phone with his brother talking about the fact that he makes no $. The man is a diamond. He is too physically, mentally and financially emotionally weak to deal with all of this awfulness. I do not want to unleash this mammoth reality on him.

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    1. Hi Fishwaterrock,

      I think you may find that herein lies your DH's problem with his FOO: "He is the nicest son. Does anything for you." I applaud him for being a kind person, but he's probably a people-pleaser, which takes "nice" to a whole new level. He probably doesn't know how to say "no," or at the very least, is extremely uncomfortable doing so. It sounds like your DH needs to learn how to set healthy boundaries, and there are any number of good books and internet resources that both he and you could use to start off!

      How aware is he of what's going on with his FOO? It is so important that he begins to open his eyes to the "mammoth reality" (as you so aptly put it) or else nothing will change.

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    2. If i wasn't totally NC (No Contact) with the ASS... I would so love doing some of these "tips". Just to watch his reaction and enjoy every minute of how pathetic HE is. Love it!

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    3. I know we're not supposed to like revenge and all that, but damn it tastes so sweet. Sometimes I too think it would be nice to see them suffer. But then I remember that I'd rather not see them at all, and move on.

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  14. So here's a fun one. Grandma raises child of druggie/alcoholic Narc daughter under guardianship. Daughter lies in court and also gets a sympathetic liberal for a case investigator, gets her daughter back at age 10. Grandma tries to point out Narc behavior & it's potential to investigator, is told that if she isn't throwing the child against the wall, she should be an o.k. Parent. These were this kook lady's words. Narc has been playing keepaway cat & mouse games, so now child, who desperately wants Mom to be a good mother, Is caught very painfully in the middle. Her choices are limited to: hurt Grandma or "supply" an evil, irrational mother. Narc took away child's cell phone so all calls & messages are controlled by her. Narc reads and deletes emails because she is so fearful and threatened by good relationship of Grandma and child. Narc mother has
    taken sweet innocent child out of therapy, (Grandma was trying to help her acquire coping tools) saying it's a crock. Grandma can only now hope and pray that the things we've taught her from age 1 will save her from being completely and permanently destroyed.

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    1. Hi Anon,

      Can it be assumed that you are the grandmother in this tale of woe, since you switched from third person to first person at the very end?

      Why is the ten year old's choices limited to "supply" an evil, irrational mother or hurt grandma? How is it that she's hurting grandma, and how is it that she's supplying her mother?

      I'm a little suspicious of your story, mostly because the grandparents who find there way here tend to be of the "dailystrength" variety and I'm not a big fan of them. If your daughter is really a narcissist, than you have my pity. But some of the things you have mentioned seem a little off to me and it seems more like you are finding reasons to complain about a daughter you don't have a healthy relationship with and a granddaughter you don't have control over.

      If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.

      Your discussion of the topic in third person feels odd to me. And while I understand that there certainly are adult children who are narcissistic, I wonder about your role (if you are, in fact, her mother as I have assumed) in the "making of" a narcissist and whether you would assume any responsibility in it.

      It is my belief that narcissists are made, in general, not born.

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  15. That's an interesting response. I used 3rd person to clarify our "generational" status, and I suppose it could sound odd. Attempts have been made to repair a conflict-ridden relationship (each including a therapist), but in a nutshell, our daughter resisted being involved and when she did temporarily join into the process became very hostile, each time ending the process herself. What could have caused this? Like a lot of families, there was some dysfunction, but her stories of her childhood are not accurate. We have another daughter who has a strong bond with us, and she is also appalled by her sister's behavior and wild "memories." I don't want to control my granddaughter OR my daughter. I'm happy & busy with other aspects of my life. But my daughter sets up a (grandchild) visit with us, then changes it. She sends email that doesn't seem to be from the child, but is more likely from her. She calls me "unstable." I'm actually pretty calm & level, until I'm being "played." She knows I like to be with the child, and I have tried to help maintain peaceful interactions with her, but I never know who will walk in that door--the sweet & caring daughter, or the one with the nasty, moody, unreasonable attitude. I have told them both I'm stepping back for a little while because the visit I'd looked forward to for 3 months has been rescheduled. Again. So my only option was to step outside the manipulative game. I don't want the child to have to be stuck in the middle, and I want to be free of the game my daughter plays.

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    1. "Attempts have been made to repair a conflict-ridden relationship (each including a therapist), but in a nutshell, our daughter resisted being involved and when she did temporarily join into the process became very hostile...what could have caused this?"

      Perhaps the answer lies within the observation that attempts were being made to repair a "conflict-ridden" relationship. I believe you asked me what might have caused an adult daughter to "become hostile" in the process of being involved in whatever solution you had come up with - I think you answered that question when you said that the relationship had already been conflict-ridden. If she had only a mildly-dysfunctional childhood, why might your relationship with her have been so conflict ridden?

      I question your assertion that your daughter's "stories" (memories?) of her childhood were not accurate, which in and of itself is a rather invalidating thing to say, in particular when it's paired with the notion that another daughter who has maintained her "close bond" with you has opinions and a voice that apparently outweigh those of your "nasty, moody, unreasonable" daughter.

      Again, I wonder where your responsibility in this lies and whether you'd be willing to bear any of it.

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    2. In my family, my truth differs from that of my younger brother for one simple reason: he was treated differently. In dysfunctional families it is common for children to be assigned roles. I was the Caretaker (slave) while, from the day he was born, my brother was the Golden Child and even I treated him that way. These types of families are known for their rigidity in maintaining these roles even as children grow into adulthood, marry and have children of their own.

      For years I accepted my role as I was conditioned to do but conflict arose and escalated when I tried to interact with my parents as a grown woman with a husband and family of her own. I was no longer willing or able to follow my assigned role so the relationship either had to change or crumble.

      In the process, I lost the close relationship I had with my brother because he was forced by my parents to choose sides. To maintain his status as the Golden Child he HAD to choose the parents that had created the role for him to play or undertake the painful journey that I have had.

      Most people don't understand that the journey some of us take toward independence is a journey in search of self. If I had been supported and respected by my parents as I grew and developed as an independent being the ending might have been very different.

      I've come to believe that NO ONE takes the decision to turn their back on their parents unless their is a compelling reason. Anonymous, stop making demands of your daughter, you can't change her nor do you have the right. Look in the mirror and you will see the only thing you can change.

      I don't give this advice to be unkind. I finally accepted my parents as they are and understood I had no right to expect them to change, so I changed myself. I stopped trying to change them by saying or doing the right thing, accepted that I couldn't live with their constant demands, and walked away. It's hardest thing I've ever done in my life!

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    3. I'm guessing "grandmother" is the reason that "mother" is coo-coo pants to begin with and "grandmother" needs to just butt out and let "mother" get her own life together. I am also guessing that these therapy sessions turned into blaming the "mother" for everything and the "grandmother" attempted to turn the therapist against the "mother".

      Which one is the narcissist again? I forget.

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  16. Well, you've put my family in a box and slapped your well-worn label on it. We weren't perfect parents, but we did not raise them in the environment you infer. You say you're a truth-seeker. Understand this, then: there are families struggling with issues and circumstances that may be outside of your typical pattern. There are parents who are Truly stable people , are capable of soul-searching self reflection, and have been good caretakers of their children, but may be dealing with brain chemical issues, damage from substance abuse, or something else. I am not qualified to assess what this is, but I do know it's not something I caused through abuse, neglect, or "preference" of our older child. Whatever this emotional deficit is, it's difficult and painful. Whatever it is, it is nobody's fault. I don't know who fits your "dailystrength" label, whatever that means, but your tone is at times very condescending. I believe communication is important, and maybe these posts will be helpful to another reader, but if I wanted blaming and finger-pointing, I'd have had a conversation with my daughter. She has that activity figured out pretty well.

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    1. "We weren't perfect parents..."

      I've seen that phrase one too many times, and it only ever comes out of the mouths of those who are or were abusive on some level. I doubt very much that your children expected you to be perfect, only that you give them the space and respect needed to grow as individuals. I wonder now, even more than before, if that in fact happened.

      I don't know the details of your story and I feel that's where the truth is. You say I have spoken in a condescending way, I disagree and I submit that it's actually you who are now speaking down to me. Coming to my blog, asking me for answers, and then telling me that the answers I've offered are wrong is not exactly taking the high road. If you don't want my opinion then don't ask for it.

      I have a feeling you are not the "helpless, hopeless, victimized" person you initially showed up as.

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  17. I'm not helpless nor am I hopeless, only sad for this Grandchild and I wish this family could have somehow avoided what has been an awful experience. I am looking for clarity, not labels. Our children had a much better childhood than most, and no, they were not abused. They were valued. But one of them would not (or could not) abide by simple and reasonable expectations meant to keep her safe. For example, parents have every right to know young teens' whereabouts, who they're with, and so they won't worry, what time you plan to return home. She could not be respectful, and for a time insisted on calling me by my first name. No consequence given would teach her anything whatsoever. Our other girl, although challenging us occasionally, was generally more responsible and courteous on these basics. I respect individuality, but being a doormat for a 15-year-old is not acceptable. It is just interesting to me that your immediate response was parental cluelessness. Maybe that's just our world now. I'll just be looking elsewhere for insight.

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    1. I must say my "Mother" said the same thing about me that you are saying about your daughter. I'm not going to let an "out of control teen rule my life" blah,blah, blah she would say. She blamed me because I was "bad" cause I had to sneak to shave my legs at 13 years old, before then kids would make fun of because I have PCOS ( a genetic hormonal disorder that leaves women very hairy). Or how I couldn't have friends, NONE of my friends were "good enough".Yet my sister (who also was the "less challanging one") had gangbanger friends and boyfriend( that missed thier prom cause he was in jail in Chicago, he got caught with a gun ). My friends were not into that other b.s. for my "mother" to just single me out was wrong. My "Mother" denied me "normal" rites of passage so I did what ANY normal person who is fighting for their identity would do, go behind her back. But in her eyes, I was the problem, her unrealistic expectations and double standards were not the issue.

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  18. See, your typical "we weren't perfect parents but we had reasonable expectations for our child and she's to blame for being a narcissist. We have proof because our other child is respectful."

    Um... I think these people will never get it. They need to blame their kid for their own parental failings. Sad.

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    1. It's always about the blame game. I certainly don't see this woman taking any responsibility for anything.

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  19. everyone pile into your cars, and drive at least 80 miles in the other direction and find a boggy, secluded swamp where you can peacefully continue the party.

    One party goer will have to be sacrificed at this time.

    LOL

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  20. If only I could master that talking without breathing thing, I would be golden. LOL Very good article.

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  21. Please please can we bring this NPD to greater light. It needs to be on the front page of every decent newspaper. If only it was legal to throttle your parents to death if they demonstrate child abuse. I know this legal right in itself would be abused here or there but what an incentive for parents to brush up or not even procreate if they are not up to the role. On the other hand i guess there would be a lot of murdered children as an act of covering the evidence. Sick world...

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    1. Anon, while I do agree that bringing NPD even more into the light would be a benefit to many survivors of abuse, I can't say I agree with you that it should be legal to "throttle your parents to death if they demonstrate child abuse." I don't know if this is a sort of tongue-in-cheek metaphor you've got going on here, or whether you're in fact serious about it, but I doubt most people could (or would) actually murder their parents, even if the law allowed them to do so. I don't know if you're aware, but intentionally murdering someone is KIND of an unconscionable act and knowing the ACoNs that I know, I seriously doubt any of them could actually do that. It sort of goes against the whole "empathy" thing, if ya know what I mean.

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  22. yeah.. in addition, i do believe that N person wont change no matter how much we try to please them or do good things to them. I am a victim of one and ill tell you all, it really sucks to live with the kind of person. I feel emotionally battered knowing he doesn't even care for my emotions and even any of my decisions he would never beg to agree. Now i am free from him and i feel better of this way. With no one to control over my emotions! with no one to hurt me so bad with his sword-like tongue! and with no one to imprisoned me with all his demands and wants! Now i can finally breathe, love myself more, and enjoy life to the fullest.!

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